tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070878148487530022.post5246493448204071285..comments2023-10-03T09:25:15.120-04:00Comments on We will rule the galaxy together: A Hard Business Lesson Learned at Stir TrekGreg Finzerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12920629780529451188noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070878148487530022.post-79072666601452960842011-05-17T21:34:00.740-04:002011-05-17T21:34:00.740-04:00James,
First of all, let me say how impressed I a...James,<br /><br />First of all, let me say how impressed I am that you started and FINISHED your book on TDD. Whether it succeeds or fails, you did something. And it of course can be used in marketing for future ventures and presentations, "Hi I am James Bender, and I literally wrote the book on TDD." <br /><br />Great suggestion on the free lite versions of products. I have personally seen that work from a consumer point of view. On my day job, they had the free version of Team City and they had to buy once they reached the limit. Kellerman Software does have free products, but they are unrelated to the paid products. This has the effect of drawing people to the site but rarely resulting in conversions. <br /><br />I am hearing a lot of people on this blog, plus twitter, and email saying that it is just important to get your name out there. I am working on that, but now I will do it using free advertising.<br /><br />I do have a paid marketing consultant, he is expensive but he is worth it. <br /><br />P.S. Kellerman Software isn't just "Greg" anymore; I have several developers, a BA, a graphic artist, and a personal assistant. <br /><br />GregGreg Finzerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12920629780529451188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070878148487530022.post-91043603139999936692011-05-17T18:39:09.720-04:002011-05-17T18:39:09.720-04:00Hey Greg,
I think you are right about a few thing...Hey Greg,<br /><br />I think you are right about a few things here.<br /><br />You are right; most developers I know do not buy software themselves. In reference to the gentleman who made the "that's $100 I don't have comment" we prefer to spend our money on attending conference where we get to interact with other developers. I'm not saying this is right or wrong; it just "is."<br /><br />Many developers have "a say" in what their companies choose. The problem is "a say" is a subjective term running the gamut from "I decide" to "I have no say at all." But, as you know, developers can be known for throwing world class temper tantrums when companies buy software or tools that they don't like (Lotus Notes ring any bells here?)<br /><br />Because of that, it's important to get your name out there in front of developers. Get them used to you. Get them familiar with you. Make sure that they know "Kellerman" software is really "Greg." That will help quite a bit.<br /><br />Another idea (one I kinda stole from Telerik) is to perhaps offer free (not evaluation) versions of your tools. You can scale these back to be just enough to give the developer something useful that they feel good about using in their application today, but not so fully featured that they wont ever have a motive to buy the full version. An easy, cool way to deliver these would help too. Maybe you could offer these as nuget packages?<br /><br />Open source is preferred by a lot of developers, but not because they are anti-capitalism. Most of these guys draw paychecks, so that can't be it. I chose a lot of open source or free versions because not having to buy software frees up that money to do things like go to Stir Trek.<br /><br />With respect to the guys slagging Telerik at lunch, you are always going to have people like this. They are the vocal minority. Ignore them. They are not interested in what you are selling and trying to win them over (at this stage) is a waste of time.<br /><br />With respect to why companies like Telerik and Component One and others spend that money, it's because it does work. Those companies would not do it if it didn't. The difference between those companies and yours is that they have a staff of highly-skilled marketing people who do nothing but work on marketing all day, every day. As developers we tend to make fun of these folks, but marketing is a skill that is not necessarily easy to learn or do. With all due respect, your primary skill set does not include marketing. I'm not saying I, or anyone commenting here would do better. Maybe the solution is to find someone with a marketing background and get some advice or mentoring.<br /><br />Anyway just some thoughts. For what it's worth I think you and Kellerman are doing cool things. I hope you'll reconsider sponsoring CONDG, but I understand if you are not interested right now.<br /><br />JJames Benderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06479123899105065890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070878148487530022.post-60889541598032674292011-05-09T08:10:54.972-04:002011-05-09T08:10:54.972-04:00Jon,
Certainly I will keep trying, it is just sel...Jon,<br /><br />Certainly I will keep trying, it is just selling to developers at conferences does not work. The important thing is measurement. Obviously with a QR Code and corresponding coupon code I can easily measure the sales results. Zero sales, zero results. You know as well as I do that when a need arises for a project, open source is looked at first and then commercial products by using Google or Bing. Even though a control vendor has advertized at StirTrek, CodeMash, Day of .NET, Mix, VS Live etc. personally I would look at the feature set and not be swayed by sponsorship.<br /><br />You would be surprised at how often the 80/20 rule applies in business. 80% of the things you try will fail and 20% succeed. The products that you make, 80% will not sell and 20% do. The customers that you have 20% will give you 80% of the support tickets and questions. The advertising that is tried, 80% will fail and 20% will succeed. Business is not for the faint of heart. You will fail 80% of the time. The key is to fail fast so that you can succeed fast.<br /><br />Thanks,<br />GregGreg Finzerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12920629780529451188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070878148487530022.post-47511551431815973542011-05-07T20:11:25.928-04:002011-05-07T20:11:25.928-04:00I remember something that I believe Mary Poppendie...I remember something that I believe Mary Poppendieck said at CodeMash two years ago.<br /><br />"If you didn't fail, you weren't trying hard enough."<br /><br />I took this to heart when I heard it. Last year I was working on my own ventures just like you, in my case it was .NET TDD training. I came up with a plan and a strategy and put some time and effort into making it work. Turns out that my strategy didn't work. I sat down and rethought my strategy and came up with a new plan for this year, and it's going much better. But I don't know if I would've arrived at the new plan without the learning experience that I had last year.<br /><br />It's really easy for developers at a conference who have never tried to do their own business venture (however small or large it might be) to poke fun at other people's attempts to do so, whether it's you or Telerik or anyone else. But you know what? You are the one actually trying to do something. They have done nothing. And you're going to be the one who makes the money.<br /><br />I'm sure you've had your share of mistakes and failures in this process but you've probably had a lot of success too. But you probably knew that when you came up with the idea and started working on it. When I started working on my TDD training idea, I knew that it might not work, but I also knew that it could be really awesome if it did work. So even if it were to fail, it would still be worth it just to have the chance at the level of success that might come out of it. It's a calculated risk, just like your decision to build Ninja Database or sponsor something. Even if I fail at something, at least I'm not failing to try.<br /><br />To me all that matters is that you have a good business plan and you are acting on it, and obviously people are buying your stuff because you are still doing it. I wouldn't worry about things you perceive as failures. Sometimes you have to get through the failures to get to success.<br /><br />BTW, I wouldn't say that what you did was a failure. There will always be people who poke fun at things, but they're not your target audience. There probably were plenty of intelligent, respectful developers out there who will look into your stuff. I usually flip very quickly through the inserts in the conference bag without really reading them, but you had a really good insert. I read the entire thing. I've also learned that your SFTP tool does good asynchronous syncing, I learned that Ninja Database can be used for more than just WP7, and I went and read pretty much everything on your site about it (after browsing through the list of other products along the way). I don't need any of those tools now, but someday one of your tools might be exactly what I need, and now I know more about it.<br /><br />Keep up the good work, and don't lose your confidence.Jon Krugerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17967382331944684749noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070878148487530022.post-89038647415705201042011-05-07T14:10:19.320-04:002011-05-07T14:10:19.320-04:00Steve,
Even though Ninja Database Pro works with ...Steve,<br /><br />Even though Ninja Database Pro works with Windows Phone 7; most of my sales have been for the desktop. It is odd because I am competing really popular databases such as SQL Compact, VistaDb, and Sqlite. I guess once you start using Ninja Database Pro, you get it. No more creating databases, no more creating tables, no object relational mapping, no more creating primary keys, no more adding columns. All that stuff is automatic. <br /><br />Thanks,<br />GregGreg Finzerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12920629780529451188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070878148487530022.post-3103173660968893792011-05-07T14:04:09.039-04:002011-05-07T14:04:09.039-04:00Maggie,
You are a rare gem for purchasing Ultraed...Maggie,<br /><br />You are a rare gem for purchasing Ultraedit. I have purchased CodeWright, MultiEdit, and TextPad in the past. I have heard good things about Ultraedit. <br /><br />I guess we are talking about the same thing that developers do not directly buy. The sponsorship at conferences only does top of mind advertising. It is expensive to do that when you do not have a product that can be consumed multiple times like Coca Cola or Dominoes Pizza. Your thirsty and hungry several times a day but your need to do FTP over SSH at your company may come once in a blue moon. <br /><br />Thanks,<br />GregGreg Finzerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12920629780529451188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070878148487530022.post-42638228809079563512011-05-07T12:30:50.819-04:002011-05-07T12:30:50.819-04:00Greg,
I wouldn't be too discouraged.
I saw a...Greg, <br />I wouldn't be too discouraged.<br /><br />I saw an ad for a ipod the other day...and still haven't purchased. Next time I scrounge up some cash I'm going to consider it.<br /><br />Sometimes even if your initial advertising touch doesn't convert into a sale, it plants a seed. There probably aren't a ton of wp7 devs out there...yet. But if the time comes when they have a need, they might remember your product.<br /><br />I've noticed similar attitudes in the developer community...heck I even catch myself with the "all software should be free" feeling. There are so many free tools out there that commercial products /really/ need to be far and away a superior product.<br /><br />Good luck :)Steve Hornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11799829988971859359noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070878148487530022.post-89916372188221559442011-05-07T12:04:36.575-04:002011-05-07T12:04:36.575-04:00Greg,
I just went through the paperwork in the St...Greg,<br /><br />I just went through the paperwork in the StirTrek bag this morning and read your flyer. It reminded me of a message I saw once in shareware about feeding the developers kids. It did not give me any clue what Ninja Database is. I've never heard of it and have no idea what it is still.<br /><br />No one around me at the Thor screening had an app to decode the popcorn bags. So it was not until I read your post just now that I know what the offer was.<br /><br />I must hang around a different crowd since I did not hear anyone complaining about sponsors at StirTrek or CodeMash. There was not a vendor session in the theater I ate lunch in so I was not aware of it but I would have been interested to see JustMock demo'd as that is the kind of tool developers will pay for - one that helps you develop software. I did attend and learn from vendor sessions at CodeMash. Databases are not tools for developers to purchase.<br /><br />You are right that developers are not your customers though. All developers are not dishonest. I have bought licenses for UltraEdit several times as it is the best editor I've found and have no problem paying a fee to use it.<br /><br />Personally I have never had a need to look into buying third party controls (I don't do much UI work) so those products don't really interest me, but I do appreciate that they sponsor our events and if I ever needed a control I would look to the names I am familiar with from the sponsoring first.<br /><br />I am very happy that we have so many sponsors for conferences so we can have great learning experiences like StirTrek and CodeMash at affordable costs. I have not worked for a company that would send me to a high cost event like TechEd or VsLive.<br /><br />Thank you for being a sponsor,<br /><br />MaggieMaggiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01390261806814709906noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070878148487530022.post-39549716415300599462011-05-07T12:03:12.028-04:002011-05-07T12:03:12.028-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Maggiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01390261806814709906noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070878148487530022.post-28446627736132105622011-05-07T11:45:45.757-04:002011-05-07T11:45:45.757-04:00Joe,
I appreciate the feedback. If you scan in t...Joe,<br /><br />I appreciate the feedback. If you scan in the QR Code from the popcorn bag or the slick, you get the Ninja Database Ultimate site license with source code and 2 years of free upgrades for $99. That was the secret deal for Stir Trek. <br /><br />I can understand that the organizers are appreciative of the sponsors but I received the exact opposite reaction from the attendees where I was randomly sitting. It seems that the result of the sponsorship is bad will, not good will. <br /><br />Thanks,<br />GregGreg Finzerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12920629780529451188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070878148487530022.post-37149719108758543132011-05-07T11:22:03.362-04:002011-05-07T11:22:03.362-04:00Greg,
Just wanted to give you a little positive f...Greg,<br /><br />Just wanted to give you a little positive feedback. I noticed your ad in the Stir Trek material; it definitely stood out from the pack. So I took a look at your web site this morning to find out more about Ninja Database pro. And no, I haven't purchased yet, but I did learn about the product, which I had not heard about before this (and may not have heard about for a while if not for Stir Trek).<br /><br />I am a little confused about something from your post, you say the offer is a $1,400 product for $99. Does that mean the $99 offer is for the site license? (Looks like the pro product is $199 on the site).<br /><br />In the way of more positive feedback, as someone who helps with a user group, I appreciate sponsors and understand that they make our groups and events possible. You do get some good will when I see you are sponsoring events such as Stir Trek. Whether that good will is worth the amount of money and time you invested is a good business question to ask. <br /><br />JoeJoe Wirtleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11883071348754875431noreply@blogger.com